World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

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Raven
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Re: World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

Post by Raven »

Distant wrote:
This is Massive Multiplayer game. This means you compete with other humans in all aspects of the game.
Actually, MMO does not mean "to compete". It just states Massively Multiplayer Online. Second-Life is an MMO. Its a game. And, of course, to some, the game is always about competition, about showing off and about showing those noobs who is the best. Like you said very nicely:
Distant wrote: As in every game some unique people win most other people loose.
But I cannot agree with the first part of the sentence. Of course, Competition can be a part of the game, but not part of EVERY game. Some games lack Competition element and put emphasis on Challange (like beating your own weaknesses and limitations) and Interaction.

And I think Blizzard is going this way, as their target audience matures. Those people have jobs, life outside of the game. The achievement for them is to build a house, get a promotion at work or have and raise a child. Not killing some random noob at a computer game or showing off with the sprites on the screen to other players or your armory profile.

They go back from work, turn the computer and after a whole day of competing at work, in real life with real people over things that actually matter, they expect something else: fun.

And who are you to tell them their way is wrong and yours is right? Is there only one way to play a game?
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Distant
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Re: World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

Post by Distant »

Raven wrote: Actually, MMO does not mean "to compete". It just states Massively Multiplayer Online. Second-Life is an MMO. Its a game. And, of course, to some, the game is always about competition, about showing off and about showing those noobs who is the best. Like you said very nicely:
I meant MMO game not just MMO. You missed a word game. You can have MMO Sims entertainment tool but not a game. :)
Game, just as any game means competition. It just the matter how many people win the game. If everybody wins there is no competition, so from my point of view no competition means there is no game.
Raven wrote: But I cannot agree with the first part of the sentence. Of course, Competition can be a part of the game, but not part of EVERY game. Some games lack Competition element and put emphasis on Challange (like beating your own weaknesses and limitations) and Interaction.
Challange is just target for Competition. Whatever that be. Direct competition with others or competition againist time as fighting with your own weakness. Second part was true for WoW for very long time. All the Ensidia, Stars and other hardcore guilds all over the world has fought for world firsts. Unfortunately lately with each patch you could'nt feel any competition. Do you remember how much time it took Ensidia to clear or the LK start content? Now are times when everyone sooner or later kill the current hard boss (as was with Yogg) and the game practicaly ends. It's not like in TBC. There is no more challange and no more competition since everyone does all sooner or later and then just pug for gear. Lack of competition results in lose of epic feeling and reason to play. What to play when there is no game?
Raven wrote: And I think Blizzard is going this way, as their target audience matures. Those people have jobs, lif
e outside of the game. The achievement for them is to build a house, get a promotion at work or have and raise a child. Not killing some random noob at a computer game or showing off with the sprites on the screen to other players or your armory profile. They go back from work, turn the computer and after a whole day of competing at work, in real life with real people over things that actually matter, they expect something else: fun.
Blizzard just goes where the money is. I absolutely agree with your description of their player target. It's just understable that they want players that can pay for themselves not just bunch of whiny teenagers or hardcore fanatics that treat gaming like art or religion. That's why WoW is made more and more casual-friendly for the "weekend players". So there is no more game, no competition just entertainment. If you like the direction where the WoW is heading and you feel you belong to their player-base then good for you :)

Raven wrote: And who are you to tell them their way is wrong and yours is right? Is there only one way to play a game?
[/quote][/quote]

...And it's not good for me. You ask who am I, well I'm a subscriber who pays for this game at least to the end of this month. I have same rights to demand good product as any other subscriber. Since I do not fit in Blizzard buisness model anymore, then I just cancelled my subscripton - which accidentally is also my right to do so as much as telling blizzard what to do. :)
Nothing is impossible
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Crow
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Re: World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

Post by Crow »

As far as I recall there was quite a lot of casual content in TBC, and even in LK they were going the right direction. Casuals could get unique companion pets, do non-trivial heroics and if they liked to PvP - do quite nice battlegrounds. They could also eventually PUG Kara, although that was already quite an achievement. Players could do raids and arena.

In LK they made an awesome move for more casual players - they introduced the achievement system. Now you could get even more unique pets, mounts, titles, and achievement points without playing 12 hours a week. However at the same time they reduced the content for players who seek more competition, such as Distant or myself.

Anyone could kill Kel'thuzad or Yogg (not to mention the joke of a raid - ToC), an alt who does three heroics a week has a gear like 2% worse then a hardcore raider and even in Arena they introduced more facerolling with DKs, Rets and melee cleaves. To be fair - arena PvP is still very competitive (though the skillcap was greatly reduced) but other than that there is hardly anything left in the game for players who wish to compete. My main accusation is not the catering for casuals, which I understand is needed. I am disappointed by the loss of balance between providing for players with different needs, they had in TBC, and which awarded them 11 mil subscribers.
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Crow
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Re: World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

Post by Crow »

Ok, so Cataclysm starts 7.XII. I was doing some research on the subject of new skills / talents / builds. MMO-Champion ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/ ) as usual provided me with overview of major class changes. I was a bit disappointed by my favorite wow site - Elitist Jerks ( http://elitistjerks.com/ ), which had hardly any conclusive information about Cataclysm, at least for Priests.

I would like to know, how many of you sill play WoW? For those who do - are there any new good sites to catch up with recent changes? I heard a lot of QQing that they made the game even simpler, bringing it near the complexity of Diablo 1... And most of all - are there things you should do in game before Cataclysm starts? As far as I understand farming for gear now is pointless, as you will get on-par items questing in Cataclysm. But is there anything that would give you a long-run advantage if you do it now?
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Distant
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Re: World of Warcraft - Cataclysm

Post by Distant »

Crow wrote:Ok, so Cataclysm starts 7.XII. I was doing some research on the subject of new skills / talents / builds. MMO-Champion ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/ ) as usual provided me with overview of major class changes. I was a bit disappointed by my favorite wow site - Elitist Jerks ( http://elitistjerks.com/ ), which had hardly any conclusive information about Cataclysm, at least for Priests.
And you won't find anything yet. There are new talents and gameplay, but no balance. Everything still changes. I'd expect reliable tutorials on elitist-jerks around December.
Crow wrote:I would like to know, how many of you sill play WoW?
Myself, Korm and Scuf. What is more important with this, that in Cata 10 man raids shall become as important as 25 man raids (same loot just less for 10 man, you go either 10 man or 25 man). There is really high chance to make polish-majority guild. Even MW guild when it comes to raiding.
Crow wrote: For those who do - are there any new good sites to catch up with recent changes?
http://mmo-champion.com - Best side about wow life.
Crow wrote:I heard a lot of QQing that they made the game even simpler, bringing it near the complexity of Diablo 1... And most of all - are there things you should do in game before Cataclysm starts?
I QQed myself, but after the patch I'm quite happy. They jettisoned unwanted cargo. Bloated talent trees, unused skills, reforging is fun and pose some balance issues :), things that mostly annoyed than gived gameplay experience. For example:
- instead of buying ingridients and making poisons yourself you buy poison bottles
- instead of need for PallyPower to manage Paladin buffs, you have two paladin buffs.
- merging single and party buffs for all classes into one skill (for ex. Arcane Int goes to me or everyone in my party/raid)
- getting rid of skills that where very very very situational all nobody used (for ex. Dampen/Amp Magic, or merging Fire/Frost Ward into Mage Ward)
- i expect raiding in Cata be much harder and rewarding then it is now (nerfs to tank threat, and healers healing :)

Crow wrote:As far as I understand farming for gear now is pointless, as you will get on-par items questing in Cataclysm. But is there anything that would give you a long-run advantage if you do it now?
Most classes changed alot. It's rewarding as it is to learn it anew. Getting t10 isnt that hard right now, and the ICC is really fun instance (It reminds me Black Temple on Hard Modes).
Nothing is impossible
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